I know, I know, this round is really young and I'm not a vet in this game... How could a noob like me can come with change suggestions already?

In the last round, we couldn't really suggest anything, we were playing in our late starter bubble. And we arrive so late that everything was already in progress.

After testing last round, then oop this round, + all the numbers crushing we did between round, the experience of my pack in such game genre (with 2 of them that already played Elveron for quite some rounds in the past), I think we can start to post what we discussed so far and listed in council.

Change #1 : In the search menu, make a box for the "In protection" kingdom (or make them appears in another color)

Change #2 : Once you change a realm # in invade, spy or magic page, it should be changed in all 3 pages

Change #3 : I think they should change the faiths, to be just good vs evil.
Too many variations for such a small playerbase.

Change #4 : Show ops book on realm page. (right after the NW, and just like it shows the search page)

Change #5 : Insert gold cost of the workers needed to be trained to rezone 1 acres, so, our Kingdom will rezone it's acres safely and will keep it's workers alive.

For races with rezone cost reduction, apply it to Gold instead of workers.

Change #6 : Make every race start with the same barrens/type except for their home land type which is ok (everyone should be able to start quickly, it's the price of troops which should slow you down).

Maybe make an exception for dwarf who are kinda dependant of their Blacksmith/Iron ore.

Change #7 Make realm book more like a spreadsheet

Exemple :
Kingdom name (sorted by size) Acres FS MS IS BS LS
I'm King! (#1) 825 1 3 1 1 0
Another Kingdom (#2) 771 2 2 1 0 1
etc.

(Sorry, I'm unable to format it in the good way, but all the numbers of ops are supposed to appear under their respective ops)

Change #8 allow players to set a standard investment resource (or set it standard on diamonds)

Change #9 Smarter search funtion; select/deselect all etc


That's it for now. As you can see, most of the changes suggestion are aesthetic changes or to make the game more user friendly. The only major change in the list is the one with barrens land type when we start. About this change, we're asking it for a basic game dynamic. Gold mine are better than home at the start of the round, for EVERY RACES. But it's easier for some races to reach an high amount of GM than for some other races... fair? About the rezone change suggestion, it basically affect nothing in game. It's another user firendly feature to make the game easier to handle on first try (you'll pay in gold the workers that would normally being killed in the process).

Yea some of the changes might make the game more user friendly.
I guess no1 answers you because some of them are very small changes so its not something most us (the playerbase) is interested about.

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Veni, vidi, vici

i think most of it sounds good, and it is plain awedome if some of our newer players get involved in changes!
most of the changes discussions wont start for another four weeks or so though, and these ideas might be more of suggestions than changes (typically changes are for balancing the game mainly), but it is always pretty blurry what lable to put on things.
i'll move this to suggestions for now anyway, where we're at least supposed to do suggestions tied to changing the game rather than balancing it.

I agree with all suggestions actually.

(Well the rezone one I'm really indifferent to, and the barren land one needs some racial fine tuning, as you said, but in general, very good ideas.)

I also disagree with the moving of the thread, as it will only serve to get less publicity. I rarely frequent any subforums but normal game talks, and many others are probably the same. It's a good thread with legit suggestions that deserves some attention. Yes, it's mostly small things, but many small things can be a big thing.

Great, thanks for the feedback.

#1
I've thought about this myself this round. It will be possible to code this directly in middle of the round and it's probably something I will do to.

#2
I've not really thought about this but I guess you are right because I got the problem sometimes.

#3
You may be right in this one to but I'm not sure I see any pros from making this change and it can be difficult to know all effects from changes like this. Many pages will be affected.

#4
I think this could be good but I'm not sure if it will make the realm page look cluttering. Maybe I could add this as an option to start with.

#5
Please explain more. I didn't really understand this idea. Do you want it to cost gold only to rezone instead of workers?

#6
The problem with different land types is that the races has buildings moved around. The races should have evenly fair divided land types to match the buildings but I'm not sure that like that for all races. Please suggest if any race need some change in starting barren land types.

#7
I think I understand what you want but I'm not sure why you want it.

#8
I guess it could be set as standard to diamonds. I think someone suggested something like a button Invest Max Diamonds. I don't know how much time you would win on this.

#9
I had some other searches but decided to only keep one because I didn't want to updated several versions of the search
Check this one:
http://www.elveron.com/elveron/game/cla ... ngdom4.jsp

I'm not sure how all of you use the search but I'm often use it to search for a kingdom in a specific land range and maybe sort for nw. It's seldom I use the filters but it could be if I'm interested in finding a kingdom against opposite faith or against a race which I have some heroes that give extra bonuses. I personally don't have any problem with clicking a few times to pick out a list of my best targets. Please give input if you use the search differently.

Thanks for the feedback.

I think it would be wisier to come earlier with a large list of suggestions instead of throwing it all at the same time later this round. So, here's why I posted it this soon. It's also our pack suggestions, I'm only the messenger. So maybe some points would be better explained by my packies.

Now, let's try to clarify some points (excuse my english skills, I'm living in a french area....)

#4 : Simply add little column after the kingdom NW, if there's 10 ops on this K, then it'll show 10 at the right side of NW. It'd be link to the op book.

#5 : Gold cost ONLY for rezone and no more workers sacrifice (but keep that magic rezone for tundra and mountain)

#7 : We want it to make our OP book look less messy. Like that, we see every kingdom we have ops on them, sorted by size, and beside, we see the # of ops done of each type, then we choose the op we want to see instead of seeing everything of every ops type sorted by time.

EDIT : It's also important to leave an option to see the ops sorted by time and by ops type. (Have you ever played Dominion? The op center system was awesome.)

Well, most of the others point aren't mine or look fine, so I won't argue further for now.

hi.. just to say that there are many players (like me) who dont really comment much in the forum, but are appreciative of efforts that you guys put in to make the game better.. keep it up

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The One and Only

I agree with Rain. Great suggestions, lets keep them visible.

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Zehahaha

Another quick list, all these changes are suggested by my packmates, except the last 4 ones.

Change #10: bigger font size for newspaper times

Change #11: servertime on each page

Personnal note: oh yeah!

Change #12: War bonuses of +5% attack power shouldn't become active immediately. Rather it should take 24 hours to allow the defending realm a chance to defend themselves. And no the time between declaring hostile and war is nullified by any decent group because it can be done within 60 seconds of declaring. Also, war shouldn't get permanently set to last 36 hours. With this 24 hour delay of the attack power, war should last a minimum of 48 hours, and should stay active until the declaring realm decides to un-declare war.

Personnal note: as it is now, it serves more runaway purpose than anything. The voting system doesn't really slow the process since you need only 2 kingdoms in a pack to vote (king and general) to get your 50% + 1. As long as the king is active, war can be setup within a minute.

Change #13 Clean up the forum, doesn't really look good to see certain section with last post 2 months ago. The sticky threads in certain section also clutter the form. Many of those threads could be move to some kind of "guide" corner? Forum games could move to general talk?

Personnal note: archives sub-forum?

Change #14: Keep copies of buy newspaper ops in the realm book to look at again later.

Change #15: make rezoning interface the same as training interface (or like dominion was) instead of dropdown menu.

Personnal note: faster to rezone since you can rezone multiples land types at the same time.

The following changes are for Gryphon, trying to find a way to have more than 50 elite units after a week... and get a small gain in space efficiency :

Change #16: Runes worth in improvement divided by 10, down to 1000 point.

Change #17: Runes gained in quest x10.

Change #18: Noble Lords worth 0.1 Court House

Change #19: Master Hunters worth 0.1 Farm

Regarding #13, when it comes to mergin forums or similar it is up to the admins to fix that (ie, zip). Moving (or unstickifying) threads i could do though. But i'd kind of say that most of the stickied things are pretty good. Any specific threads you have in mind to move or unstickify?

Edit: I like the idea of combining forums though. We could really have Gametalk (gametalk+suggestions+strategy), general (general+games) and then let announcements and bugs stay.

I've moved Forum Games to General Talk, it was quick and easy.

I'm not sure I want to move the other right now.

#14
Maybe something V can make. I'll talk to him later.

#12
Development team.

#16-19
Development team.

Ah, now we come to the point where I don't agree. Yes, war is instant, in the paper anyway. The train time is 12 hours though (9 for specs, yes.) and you should also be well aware of when a strong player is stacking up resources for a big push, and calculate possible militaries accordingly.

Yes, sometimes it *can* be hard to successfully predict and appropriately defend a push, but this is a war game. More offense avaliable encourages stronger players to hit each other rather than continously feeding off of weaker, smaller players resulting in one large food-chain effect. Pushes, even with war (particularly with the measly 5% it is now) is always possible to defend, but it might be too late once the war actually htis. If it is it is your fault alone, in my opinion.

+1 to rain

It's so nice to have "new" players be vocal with their opinions. Veterans often mistake things as "This is just how it is," and things remain difficult to learn.

#1 - Yes, please! I'd rather them just be removed from the Search function.
#2 - Something similar has been suggested in the past. Such as when you log into forums, you should be redirected to what you were viewing. I agree with both!
#3 - zip's statement summed it well. If you feel stronger about it, I suggest elaborating more on it. How would it change the game for the better? Does it take anything away from the game?
#4 - Perhaps this could be added with an option to hide it. Seems it would slow the load time to realm pages.
#5 - Unfortunately, I will have to pull the old "this is just how it works" thing. Kinda like how buildings cost gold and lumber, magic shield costs land*md per hour, or workers trainable per hour is limited by the amount of peasants you have.

Not to say I am in a fully state of "Do not even try to suggest this change!" If you feel stronger about it, I'd like some more reasoning beyond keeping workers safe.
#6 - It is sort of set up this way, but like zip stated, each race is different. We can reassess each race's starting barren acres. Did you know Tollspry start with like 60 or 70 barren Mountains? What up with dat?
#7 - This is cool, but I'm not sure I agree with it. When I look at a kingdom, I like to scroll down and see all ops (military, imps, buildings, etc) in one screen. Having to click back 4-5 times to see all these ops would be frustrating. But if zip is whiling to put in the work, I can always click the "See all ops" button and let you go to town with this option.
#8 - I feel you bro!
#9 - I actually prefer the search function zip linked!
#10 - You can always increase the font size on your browser. Anyway, I am not against this.
#11 - Yes, but where? Maybe on the top bar set to the right side.
#12 - I agree with Rain's statement.
#13 - Indeed. I agree with Dante. Maybe give "Questions" its own forum. I bet that forum would be most visited by new players, by far. And people post all suggestions in "Game Talk" anyway? May as well make it "Game Talk and Suggestions", they kind of are the same thing at times.
#14 - Yup, suggested several times in the past. This is just something zip and V would need to work on and decide if possible.
#15 - I never played Dominion long enough to know what the rezoning interface looked like. Perhaps someone could Photoshop/Paint an example?
#16,17,18,19 - 18 and 19 actually decrease their space efficiency. I am never in favor of changes that complicate the learning process a current races.

Some math for you:
A building houses 10 population along with it's function. Ideally, a kingdom would build only Houses if they had the choice, as they hold a total of 30 population (10 building + 20 function). When you train a Noble Lord/Master Hunter, you gain the ability to build a House instead of Court House/Farm. So you gain 19 population (20 - the unit itself). And since Merchant Guilds are total boss, that 19 population would inflate to like 25-30 population.

Your example would only allow then to gain 10 population. (20 - the 10 units)

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The Age of Despair :: Round 2 :: 1 El Norte
The Age of Wisdom :: Round 4 :: 1 SmoochyWoochyPoochy
The Age of Wisdom :: Round 6 :: 1 Goblin Rings
The Age of Achievements :: Round 1 :: 1 Hufflepuff's Cup

I'll ask my packmates to come here to defend their own points.

As for the changes #18 and 19, I know the math isn't correct. But I'm pretty sure you can get my point on the fact that you save pez/workers if you get the possibility to train more 0/10 or 10/0 units over 0/6 and 8/4. The numbers I proposed are wrong for sure, but I couldn't figure the right balance. It was a bit more to throw the idea to decrese the limit of the elite amount (but wow, what an elite they are atm) a gryphon can train vs all other races.

About rezone cost : the proposed change is to simplify the processus and maybe it'd also give more flexibility for oop. It's simple, if it cost 5 workers to rezone now, after the proposed change it'll cost 500 gold, no workers. And like I said, keep the mana rezone for tundra and mountain, it already add one level of complexity and some limitation (mainly for the first hours of protection).