Will you really consider any balance suggestions?

Barbarian: Sister: -100g

Tollspry: Grave knoll: +300dm

shinobi: crystal assassin: -20g

Animator: Mold: -20g

Troll: cave troll: -150g

Minotaur: Minotaur Veteran: -100g

Elemental:
Gluttony Elemental: -10m
Envy Elemental: -10m
Anger Elemental: -10m

It would help greatly if you can say something about why all these races need a buff, and if possible why these specific buffs. Here's my comments on your suggestion so we can get a discussion going..

Barbarian might need a buff. Though such a lowering of the def price will be a huge buff for an already strong xp race which isnt great imo.

Tollspry might need a buff, but that is a pretty big one you're suggesting. And not sure if buffing GKs is the best.

Shinobi i dont think need a buff.

Animator need no change either i think.. Though i have very little understanding for the race and wont express a strong opinion on it.

Personally i dont think trolls need a buff if they are +5% gold. But cave trolls might not be used a lot on a 5w round so i can see the reasoning there. I think it might be best then to roll back the +5% gold and do some additional tweaks.

Minotaurs problem isnt really not being able to afford to train elite op. So i dont really see this change as a great idea.

Ele dont need a buff at all imo.

For land play the race cannot catch up it cannot dominate at any specific point in the round, it has no flexibility to give it an edge and I can not see the huge advantages of low casualty offense as it is not enough on its own, but buffing it's low casualty offense seems to b tabu by the balance team. Therefore the only option is to buff its defense or reduce the massive negative bonuses and reduce the offense a bit.


Tollspry are near impossible to get up and running, also because of the time it takes to get the improvement up high in a 5 week round it should be nearly +700dm! Remember the round a tollspry won he took great risks at one point and had to go with explorer to make the most of his big income to win! Then Grave knoll production was halved. (50% reduction...) We can spend gold to get improvements up higher but the train time of graveknoll military makes it very hard to do this in a big fashion
+300dm is less than 18% more improvement points tollspry can make. You honestly think that makes them better than a human? or a vampire?


My focus on shinobies are crystal assassin. Humans are better than shinobies now and crystal assassins are a little to expensive in compared to using full Crescent Knights.


This change is small but it gives them a better exploration ability early that helps just enough to make them more comparable to humans and vampires.


Troll's Forest Trolls are outmatching the cave troll in so many ways it is silly. The 150g is a minor change of 2.4% same amount as found on the my suggestion for the crystal assassin.


A minotaur land play has to balance the training of defense with a mixture of specs and elites. The offense elite really would need better turtle to support the struggle of getting enough defense with minotaur, but such a change makes minotaur like many other races. So I would either make the elite offense 9 or reduce it's price to better make up for it's low turtle defense.


The magic dust price is to much for a race with such expensive defense.

Well argued. I disagree on barb, mino and ele for already stated reasons, the rest i can buy.

I just want to say that the mino changes were great. Played them this round... didn't do great but thats more cause of lack of time and cover. Don't change it back to 50 decorated shamans for a summon... it would make the race too slow to be able to compete imo

Elementals do not need a buff at all.

The only downsides of the race I found are the 12 hour returns, and the fact it's hard to stock for massive Sloth pushes given the massive MD decay.

Taking away 10 MD per unit is just ridiculous lol. And the defence isn't expensive? If you time the Sloth pushes, and upgrade enough just for OP then you won't be paying too much for defence.

And when you do upgrade when sitting, the "expensiveness" of upgrading is mitigated by the fact you lose no workers and hence any economy.

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150.100.80.

Now that i read through things it appears only tollspry and barb are being discussed in the devteam balancewise, both to get buffed. Other changes are not really discussed in terms of balance between races.

Which other races should be buffed or nerfed? Nost gam has given some ideas, any others?

Cave Trolls are awesome, though! Over twice as efficient as Forest Trolls. Less casualties as well. I believe they are just not as popular because their extreme price, so I can understand your want to decrease them. I have seen successful Trolls utilize Cave Trolls before, which personally makes me hesitant to decrease their prices.

I care very little for Barbarian at this point. I firmly believe they are a competitive race in the right hands, the math is there. They are simply complex, inflexible (as you stated), and hard to gain an advantage with (already implied with complex/inflexible?). Im not sure anything more than a slight overhaul will change that...

Tollspry are very well balanced in my personal opinion. The "50% reduction" was not a severe as you think. Not even remotely close to 50% less "diamond" production. Initially, the concept of the race required you to sacrifice Emitters to gain improvements. In its first few versions, that was not the case, but now is corrected.

I would agree with you on Shinobi, but I fear they are a nearly perfectly balanced race in terms of flexibility. As small of an advantage the CAs bring, it can be noticed in the right situations. Unlike the CK, CA have the ability to shadow and give you more Shadowsylphs overtime. (Takes more CAs to achieve the same amount of offense, therefore more casualties, plus they have slightly higher casualty rating.)

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The Age of Despair :: Round 2 :: 1 El Norte
The Age of Wisdom :: Round 4 :: 1 SmoochyWoochyPoochy
The Age of Wisdom :: Round 6 :: 1 Goblin Rings
The Age of Achievements :: Round 1 :: 1 Hufflepuff's Cup

Yeah, regarding barb i wouldnt be surprised if ceeks pack runs them soon and destroy all competition..

I disagree on tollspry though q. I think they need a slught buff for 5w r

Barbs seem ok for this round length. I'm sure the spell was well discussed when first proposed, but it still doesn't look like a good trade off to me. Maybe if it was 8 lumber per hunter.

Tolls are having a hard time imping now, but B would know better than me just how much of a boost they need.

Shinobis will always be slowed down by the need to pay extra for the spy strength on their units. Still, they have a lot going for them with their spell and all gold cost. I'd leave them alone.

Ele are fine, they just have to be played a certain way.

Play them please. Your income drops a lot when you are training and the reason is that you cannot just upgrade them as you please. You have to over-train a lot of defense or sit while upgrading a small amount of units every 6 hours to keep enough defense home while upgrading. The zero defense units is no help either. Sadly the spell makes the improvement points more expensive, but you have to use it to get the improvements up faster. What other races can imp in a day early you will spend a week to get as tollspry.

The strongest part of tollspry is the two early units. If you can make use of them to get a good start then you have a chance, but that is based on luck when looking at the other fast races.

The race is meant to spend gold on getting improvements but the time it takes to get it is horrible and compared to what the race was before the debuff, it was a 50% reduction of improvement points.

I have played them, and "helped" wilan win the round he won. I fully understand the mechanics of tollspry. It is absolutely for the most active players, which does not appeal to every player.

Harmonizer is technically a terrible unit to attack with. It's most efficient and cost effective to attack with timber singers -- something I believe is a major factor to several failed tollspry. Ask b how long he stuck on harmonizers for offense early on. I watched him.

Please show me the math behind your 50% lost improvements claim. If you do the math correctly, you'll learn a lot about tollspry.

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The Age of Despair :: Round 2 :: 1 El Norte
The Age of Wisdom :: Round 4 :: 1 SmoochyWoochyPoochy
The Age of Wisdom :: Round 6 :: 1 Goblin Rings
The Age of Achievements :: Round 1 :: 1 Hufflepuff's Cup

Changes updated!

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The Age of Despair :: Round 2 :: 1 El Norte
The Age of Wisdom :: Round 4 :: 1 SmoochyWoochyPoochy
The Age of Wisdom :: Round 6 :: 1 Goblin Rings
The Age of Achievements :: Round 1 :: 1 Hufflepuff's Cup

Sister -10 casualities -2 hour return time -- From 110 to 100

I don't think an 0/8 defense unit needs -2 hr return time. Not sure if this is just a copy paste error or if it should be train time.

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Oh Eighty
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Wonderland says
he is pwning you with a wooden spoon!
Immor says
i use chopstick

Just a C&P error.