Sounds right on phx, and i think i calced worker on fw spec, so wrong there too prolly. Spec get +1 op with elite. I think the comparison is viable still.
Fw only able to hit big late round, think trollif you never experienced another slow race.

Phoenixes coupled with a spec get +1 op.

Are you seriously asking for a boost on barbarian, or saying they're useless? Do you have any clue how powerful efficient bottomfeeding races with near zero effective casualties are on 6 weekers?

Sure they're not suitable for all-inning the competition until the last week, but that's just how slow races work.

The spell is bad, yes, but you seem to miss the fact that people really often underbuild sawmills, ending up to situation where they can't build all their land. In that situation it is better to use the spell for lumber rather than go really heavy on sawmills.

Though I would rather see the spell produce lumber on *all* (or even grassland+forest) barren land, with the current rate. That'd make it so that you could actually get your mass r/r lumber (from dms -> alchs, for example) by razing the buildings and sitting on the barren for a few ticks before rezoning/rebuilding. It'd also enable not having to use so many sawmills for building longships, as you could get your land built by having the spell on every time you got new land in. Having to rezone the barren to forest before you get any lumber from it costs too much for the aforementioned applications.

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It would be great if you can redo the comparison calc nost. Use some simple conversion to gold unstead tho. Gm works as early round comparison, or a standardised nymber based on an average banking mod to the gm.

I did not ask for a boost. Dante wrote correct me if I am wrong and his numbers made no sense to me as does comparing a flameweaver to barbarian. The +1 offense help the compare and his numbers but it is still not the same play. Barbarian are a bit more costly to start up than flameweavers overall and got less space left for improvement. It can be counter by using more specs but that also greatly changes the dynamic of lower casualties on barbarians.

Barb has better oop capacity, so should have more space. I think the comparison is very valid. Two races with zero op elite cas, big 2nd res cost and great long late round capacity.
Edit. But lets agree to disagree. Which race would you compare barb too? And fw?

Yes they are more comparable now that the spec is also 4 offense which is important as you only need to retrain the spec from casualties.

I thought FW looked tad weak but now they look as strong as barbarians. 1 little point of military strength makes a big impact.

Your numbers Dante are very close to any numbers I calculate now. Sorry but I was sure you would had mentioned any addition points of military since you posted all of the Flame Weavers military.

Edit:

Yes this makes the spell have a use.

Glad we're agreed then!
I looked back at phx too and found my mistake, i calced with 15 instead of 10 from dm. Which gave 250gpp.
So phx are 259gpp comparing dm to unmodded gm

instead of the create the 'weak spell', why not just do the conventional limit on the Blood Eagle.. like only applicable to Night or Day.. like shin..

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With the pack sizes of four, can war be waged with only two kingdoms?

If so, and the pack sizes are increased to six kingdoms, does that mean that three kingdoms are then required as per normal? Or will there be a special bypass this time round?

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150.100.80.

Yes, -dB, only two kingdoms will be needed to wage war!

Yes, when you have six kingdoms, three will be needed to wage war!

However, when you increased to eight in the past, you needed four to wage war. So this is just something to continue thinking about when adding kingdoms.

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So pack size is now 4 and we get +2 after GT 240?

Why is wood cutting a one time spell? and either way it doesn't seem to work?

Ok I haven't read this whole thread, but why did u all nerf human? By increasing price, you are effectively changing absolutely nothing but requiring more towers than before. Noone would ever pass up a 15% casualty reduction even if it costed 3 times as much as it does now. If you want to increase the price to do that, then you need a matching reduction in unit pricing seeing as they are currently balanced around their -15% casualty "bonus". This seems like a pointless nerf. I know you all want to fix the whole required spells thing, but this isn't the right way to do it. Why haven't you guys increased the cost of the sylvan reduced lumber decay spell to make that one not required?

Or Animator/Vampire/Shinobi/Troll spells?

And if these spells are modified then the races will subsequently need to be rebalanced to include these modifications to critical spells!

So all I guess my question is: Why should Human take this nerf when it doesn't accomplish the supposed effect that the change was made for and when the race doesn't really seem to need a nerf itself?

Wood Cutting - ADDED
SELF - Cost: 0md
While spell is active, Hunters are sent out to cut trees in barren forest. One acre of barren Forest can employ 50 Hunters.

Does the above mean that one barren forest house 50 hunters while the spell is active ?

@m80,
No. At least that's not how it is intended.

Kotw,
Sure, it is a nerf. Very minor though. 3x for a spell mainly used 1 tick isnt a lot.