I started with centaurs... I miss them

Oh yeah! Remove Shinobi for Centaurs. Easy race for easy race.

Plus, Centaurs are HELLA popular.

EDIT: All gold race for all gold race.

_________________
The Age of Despair :: Round 2 :: 1 El Norte
The Age of Wisdom :: Round 4 :: 1 SmoochyWoochyPoochy
The Age of Wisdom :: Round 6 :: 1 Goblin Rings
The Age of Achievements :: Round 1 :: 1 Hufflepuff's Cup

What about changes meeting this Sunday at 20:00 server time?

I will be busy on Sunday, all day.

I was planning on introducing a dragon race, but I reacted to late and I don't want to rush it. The round will end in 3 days and 17 hours.
So not enough time, even with in-between round.

So for next round we will swap an existing race with an old one. So what should we switch?


Then we will have like 30-50 days to come up with a final dragon race for the round after next one.

_________________
In his last Budget as chancellor in 2007, Gordon Brown said: “We will never return to the old boom and bust.”

Do we know the round length?

I don't like Amuril's opinion that we should introduce a race based on round length. Let's say we add Goblin in a short round. Fair enough, fast race, short round. But that race is not gonna stay there only for that round, but also in the longer rounds that will follow.

When deciding what race to put in, we should think about the balance of the alignement. For example, it will be pointless to introduce Spirit (fast race iirc) for Shinobi/Elf. Good will lose one of the long term races (which already aren't the best long round races overall) for another fast race.

So let's introduce a 'cool/fun' race that keeps the alignement balanced and tweak that race for the round length. BUT I do not mean to say the if we are gonna introduce, for example, Frostzorb that it HAS to be able to compete in 4 weeks. It should be playable ("there are, altho very few, possibilities they can win.. So that introducing them is worth it"), but not totally able to win in any 4 weeker.

I agree with this position. Unless the new race is going to make a cameo appearance for just 1 round and then immediately go back to being inactive, I don't see why a new race has to be balanced specifically for the upcoming round.

Generally, it makes sense that similar races be replaced with similar races or versatile races.

_________________
Our pack's Royal Family Message every round now:

"Please don't hit active guys with huge OP--even if they leave land DP!!!"

Dragons... --> Big Flying Chickens.

_________________
There's only one thing real about this world and that's us! The players!
Getting stronger and defeating others!
That's the way this game is played!

For the next round changes, I would like them to take place in another way than we usually do.

Most of times we go by feeling ('guesses', as some will say) when we suggest changes. "I think race x needs a nerf on unit y, cuz they have been (too) strong lately." This ofc, is based on how a player did with that race, not how the race is itself. Like last round's Terranoid. People wanted Terra nerfed, cuz 1 player (a very skilled one) did well with them while all other Terra's actually sucked. This round, Terra was played by good players, but they didn't manage to compete (a note tho: this was a weird round). Does this need the race needs to get boosted (as I have heard already a very few times)? No.

I want us to decide changes based on the relatives, the races compared to a 'standard'. You take one race and call that the standard (Human seems like the most obvious one). This race/standard then decides how to change/balance the other races. In order for that to work, the standard should not be changed. It doesn't need to be changed, as I will explain.

When we for example want to balance Shinobi, we take a look at their units, their racial advantages/disadvantages (etc.) and compare that to Human's units, racial advantages/disadvantages (etc.). So we don't say any more: "Crystal Assasin it too weak, Shin's haven't done well lately, so we boost it". But we say: "Hmm Human Knight is x gold/point, requires a Human to run y% of Ore mines (which is z% less DMs/Homes), has better space efficiency and turtle, but no conversions." Based on that we decide the changes (do we boost CA? Or is it actually comparable to the Knight?). And then we go on to the next race and compare it to Human again.

When making changes in this way, it doesn't matter if the standard race is "overpowered" at that specific moment. Since you are changing races based on the overpowered race, all other races will become overpowered too. All races overpowered = all races balanced. The consequence of "all overpowered" races is that the overall numbers of OP/DP in a round might be higher, but the races are all relatively (compared to eachother) balanced. All overpowered/underpowered = all balanced.

Some of us try to do this already (for example Kalle), but by far the most of us, including me, just goes by guesses/feeling. It is hard to balance races this way: (1) it takes alot more time, (2) it takes alot more calcs, (3) it's not always doable (some races just work differently (Elfs with SE's, Orc with Shamans)), (4) it is always based on assumptions (guesses?) (what/who decides when units are relatively balanced? It's not only about g/point for example), but I think it is worth it, to at least START TRYING to make changes this way.

It won't result in a full use of this system only after one round, it won't resualt in all balanced races after 1 try (it doesn't result in all balanced races in the current system either, so no difference here), but it will be at least worth to try going that way, going to a new changes-deciding-system, with the relatives, rather then what we think based on only the last (few) round(s).

What I get from this is that gryphon should be brought back..

_________________
Nick says:
brb putting pizza in the oven
lol typing it so much fun
like think about it
you're pressing lil buttons
lol

Shane says:
haha

Make the Bazaar Heroes available all at once and continuously. Here's the reason:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15208

_________________
Our pack's Royal Family Message every round now:

"Please don't hit active guys with huge OP--even if they leave land DP!!!"

Zorb for weaver!
Centaur for shinobi!

_________________
The Age of Despair :: Round 2 :: 1 El Norte
The Age of Wisdom :: Round 4 :: 1 SmoochyWoochyPoochy
The Age of Wisdom :: Round 6 :: 1 Goblin Rings
The Age of Achievements :: Round 1 :: 1 Hufflepuff's Cup

I like Frostzorb for Flameweaver as well.

I don't mind Centaur for Shinobi, but I'd of course prefer Gryphon for Shinobi

_________________
Our pack's Royal Family Message every round now:

"Please don't hit active guys with huge OP--even if they leave land DP!!!"

That is why I prefer Kalle and Zip to make changes with a small group of experienced players instead of group of 20-30 players that want to be part of that team.

Of course, once the changes are made, everyone should be able to comment it, but it is useless to consult race changes with 20 or even more players.

Question is of course, how do you set a boundary for experienced players?

_________________
In his last Budget as chancellor in 2007, Gordon Brown said: “We will never return to the old boom and bust.”