Race: Daemon
Alignment: Evil

Main Overview:
Spread far and wide across the lands of Elveron, Daemons, a solitary race that prefers to haunt victims alone. Physically weak, due to their limited remaining connection with the land, but vengeful and grudging personalities make for a ferocious foe. Abnormally, the Daemon have begun congregating within the deepest corners of Elveron. Mages from all races have detected this, and have begun alarming their rulers of the impending threat.


Bonuses and Penalties:
- Land and buildings house 0 population (effectively -100% Population).
- Cannot invest in Housing.
- Military occupies 0 population and does not eat.
- Cannot overpopulate.
- Buildings only require lumber to construct.
- Peasants and Corpses produce 0 gold.

Military:

- Military does not require peasants or Corpses for training.
- Corpses training are only limited to gold stock. Amount trained is split over a 12 hour period.
- Corpses increase your gold production by (Amount of Corpses/land)%




Spells:
True Blessings - (Self, Instant) - Sacrifices 25% of your Corpses, with each Corpse becoming 400 investment points split into all Kingdom Imps (except Housing).



Building Differences:
Home - Cannot build.
Farm - Cannot build.
Altar of Riches (Gold Mine)
Altar of Industry (Iron Mine)
Altar of Beauty (Diamond Mine) - Grassland
Dungeon (Court House)

Tried to keep some individuality, style and innovation whilst keeping it simple. I'd be interested to see if this race is even possible to code. The prices will need a rethink in the morning. I'm really not up to balancing this a lot tonight. Suggestions are absolutely appreciated. :]

Change Log
- Clarified food consumption.
- Gave Corpses back gold production. SCRATCHED.
- Spell from 10% to 25%.
- [color=#000000]Double starting resources. Changed to double starting workers.[/color] ALL SCRATCHED.
- Idol -10g to 15dm, -60% casualties.
- Fiend +.25 OP, +.5 DP, -2 hr return time, +30r.
- Prayer -20g.
- Corpse +50g. SCRATCHED.
- Removed Farms.
- Fiend +15r. SCRATCHED.
- Added Corpse limitation. SCRATCHED.
- Gold Mine produces 60g/hour instead of 70.
- OMFG STOP CONSTANTLY CHANGING STUFF PLUM.
- Added Corpse bonus.

_________________
I want the public schools to leave my children alone. No condoms, no heterosexual ed. Under the guise of sex ed, public schools are trying to instill un-Catholic views into our children. The public schools, and the gay lobby, want access to MY CHILDREN.

Holy crap! When I first saw the -100% population, I thought you were joking. But I guess it fits, definitely an extreme, unique concept.

Damn, its weird because they dont need to battle efficiency problems... ever haha. Its like they have +infinity population. which can be good and bad. It will need lots of thought to balance it for sure.

One thing that really stands out are the Corpses. From my understanding, they only serve as investment points? And 1 Corpse will equal 400 points, so 1 gold is equal to 2 investment points. This means it will only take 7.2% banking imps to make the Altar of Richs better than a DM. However, the spell costs magic dust and is limited to KIMPs. (I thought this was overpowered at first, but once typing it out, I like it.)

Why train Fiends when you have Prayers? Yes, Fiends are cheaper, but Prayers get cheaper with better banking and have 10 hour return time. You would eventually r/r the IMs.

Idols seem like the best unit by far. Most efficient (or effective, since this race doesnt have efficiency problems!) and cheaper than Prayer (or same cost).

Balancing their prices and economy would be ridiculous work though, but if the race were to make it in, the work would be worth it. Cool race GPlum!

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The Age of Despair :: Round 2 :: 1 El Norte
The Age of Wisdom :: Round 4 :: 1 SmoochyWoochyPoochy
The Age of Wisdom :: Round 6 :: 1 Goblin Rings
The Age of Achievements :: Round 1 :: 1 Hufflepuff's Cup

The unit pricing some what stems from the way Zons play. The cheaper unit to start with is the Fiend, similar to the way Heroines are used. As the rounds goes on, imps get higher and the Prayer gets cheaper, but I see your point. The fiend isn't really cheap enough to encourage it's use. I'll consider lowering casualties and/or return time to make the Fiend more usable tonight when I bash out this race some more. Still trying to get my own head around income issues.

I was going to add more functionality to Corpses, but I figured the race is already out-there enough that it doesn't need loads of effects. So yes, as it is now, Corpses are only investment points (EDIT: and rezoning costs, yo). The trouble comes when you want to balance either training corpses for a long time and then using the spell, losing out on the imp points for all the time your training, or casting the spell regularly and having a larger MD cost.

Right now I think my pricing is all off for the gold units. The whole 150-200g/point idea stems from races that have peasant/worker income, but this race doesn't...that's why the powerful GM is there, but if I go any higher with the gold income (or lower with the gold prices) the ore/diamond units become useless.

_________________
I want the public schools to leave my children alone. No condoms, no heterosexual ed. Under the guise of sex ed, public schools are trying to instill un-Catholic views into our children. The public schools, and the gay lobby, want access to MY CHILDREN.

Their gold mine sucks actually haha, seeing as every other race has 60g and 20 peasants. Although you cant factor that since the race is so unique... I like the 70g. But ya, until you can figure out realistic economy numbers, which shouldnt be tough since economies will be straight forward - the only variable is land size and imps, you cant balance prices. I say that since no race ever had 0 peasants.

The Corpses DEFINITELY need some other purpose. Right now they are useless, since you can never truly 'invest' them all, so in a sense, you will waste gold. It also costs magic dust, which theoretically you could invest also.

_________________
The Age of Despair :: Round 2 :: 1 El Norte
The Age of Wisdom :: Round 4 :: 1 SmoochyWoochyPoochy
The Age of Wisdom :: Round 6 :: 1 Goblin Rings
The Age of Achievements :: Round 1 :: 1 Hufflepuff's Cup

You should make the corpses produce the same gold as a worker.

This race will be so slow in the beginning and middle round I doubt it will be able to catch up.

-100% population is like having 1 less gold mine for each acre you own or 20 less base population. And that means when you leave protection your economy will be less than half of the other players.

At 1,000 acres an attacker with 20 modified offense per acre and 20 modified defense per acre has about 5 units per acre worth of military not counting workers.

So at 1,000 acres your competition is making double your economy.

at 1,700 acres dpas are at 40 and an attackers military not counting workers takes up 10 population per acre. The enemy is still making 71% more gold per acre than you at 2,000 acres.

At 2,400 acres dpas are at 60. Your still making 46% less gold per acre than enemy.

I did not count max population affecting the 20 extra peasants per acre other races get.

I wouldn't bother calculating beyond 2,400 acres because if your economy has not caught up by then you will probobly have been raped out of the competition.

However if you give them the ability to make unlimited workers each hour that don't take up space and make gold that might make them competitive.

It would be an epic come from behind race if it has a chance. I would play it with worker change I added.

I also would like to say this is the most original race concept I have seen after looking at 20 or so recent races.

_________________
You cannot define this.
There is nothing else like it.
It's how you react, no it's not what you say.
You're running from nothing you're running away.
-Steromud

You should also double the base starting resources so they have enough defense to not be restarted when exploring.

Attacking would suck early cause they so slow so thier best chance is to grab some land for a bigger economy and wait for mass workers to be trained to get your economy caught up with everyone else.

_________________
You cannot define this.
There is nothing else like it.
It's how you react, no it's not what you say.
You're running from nothing you're running away.
-Steromud

Last night I got it into my head that Corpses would be completely overpowered if they produced gold, but with a 200g price tag and no peasant income, it sounds fair.

I will also change the spell to 25%, I think. Gold producing Corpses raises the value of them quite a bit. 25% will cut the md cost substantially. I'll also mess around with building placements.

Also, I actually assumed when I created it there would be 0 food consumption, but with the corpse change I'd like to have just the workers eat food. That should penalize huge amounts of GQ'd workers a little bit instead of being free to have completely unlimited workers.

Thanks for the comments. :]

EDIT: With corpses producing gold now and farms being required, would it be entirely unfair for Fiend to cost 110 ore or even lower? 500 IMs is only 250 OP an hour, when that could be 500 DMs imping it up. Maybe 50r and 50g?

_________________
I want the public schools to leave my children alone. No condoms, no heterosexual ed. Under the guise of sex ed, public schools are trying to instill un-Catholic views into our children. The public schools, and the gay lobby, want access to MY CHILDREN.

I would make the corpses not require food. They are the only thing that allow you to keep up with the other races with peasants.

Your gonna be on like 1/3 size of top land because you are so slow in the beginning other races will rape you. Your gonna need as much economy as you can get on your low land size with a low amount of gold mines and no economy from peasants.

The goal is for them to be overpowered end round because they need to like triple there land size in a single week to win the round.

The ore required military should be a tad cheaper since you will have some banking even if you don't make any diamond mines.

_________________
You cannot define this.
There is nothing else like it.
It's how you react, no it's not what you say.
You're running from nothing you're running away.
-Steromud

Lowered prices on the Idol/Fiend. Removed food all together. Thanks. :]

_________________
I want the public schools to leave my children alone. No condoms, no heterosexual ed. Under the guise of sex ed, public schools are trying to instill un-Catholic views into our children. The public schools, and the gay lobby, want access to MY CHILDREN.

STILL LOOKING FOR SUGGESTIONS/COMMENTS.

I'm looking at you, Ceek.

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I want the public schools to leave my children alone. No condoms, no heterosexual ed. Under the guise of sex ed, public schools are trying to instill un-Catholic views into our children. The public schools, and the gay lobby, want access to MY CHILDREN.

Ill try and give my opinion, no matter how limited it is.

So, esentially, since they "technically" dont have peasants that means there is no cap on how many troops you can produce every day? its only limited to gold production? The worker isnt necassary for training, so the point of them is just for investment purposes, which does serve a prupose as they are x2 as effective.

Also, do they eat? I dont understand that. No peasants, and military doesnt eat, i'd assume they dont eat as a whole?
Ahh, nevermind. I read through it, no eating.
But I dont see it in the bonus/penalty. Perhaps you should put it there? Just for clarification purposes.

They wouldnt need to run mass GQ to lower worker cost, and then train as many as they need, it seems since they are just for investing.. Clarifying, the only way for this race to make gold is for GM, and banking?

Dont know if this helps..
Ill try and make a more helpful comment after I understand this race better.

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Nick says:
brb putting pizza in the oven
lol typing it so much fun
like think about it
you're pressing lil buttons
lol

Shane says:
haha

Fine.

I'll give you props for the most original and fun concept ever seen, but I haven't got a clue of how to even start balancing this race. I don't even know how it'd play out, because I'm far too lazy to open the calculator.

One thing is for sure though, I'd never touch fiends. Give em some turtle, and we'll talk.

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www.ceekayed.com

You should make all the non spy/mage non worker units cost 100 gold each.

Gold mines and guild quarters are the key to this races success. Making as many corpses as fast as possible is goal.

This race really needs a 6 week round. Anything less and they will never reach that point where efficiency has hurt the enemies economy enough for you to outtrain them at a smaller size since you are coming from behind and sucking early on.

Corpses are much better for investing than diamond mines and banking will make the gold based units only better.

_________________
You cannot define this.
There is nothing else like it.
It's how you react, no it's not what you say.
You're running from nothing you're running away.
-Steromud

if a player built 20% gqs (disregarding goldmines) and trained pure workers with his gold income every turn without exploring or anything he would end up producing about 3.5 million gold per turn by GT 200 regardless of other factors, such as getting hit...

GT0 GPH: 3500, workers 1,000

GT20 GPH: 6969, workers 1,991

GT40 GPH: 13,874, workers 3575


so their econ doubles every 20 turns or so....

if you take GQs out then it would double every 40 turns instead.

_________________
The empty handed painter on your street..
is drawing crazy patterns in your sheets...
The sky, too, is falling over you...
and it's all over now, Baby Blue.

And this is definitely what I'm worried about with Corpses producing gold. I believe story wise a limit on Corpse amount depending on the amount of other military produced would work. This would only be feasible AFTER a certain gametime. Anyone want to a do a little number crunching?

Sweeping changes by the way, to encourage the use of ore and diamonds early in the game. Keeps the concept I had originally and makes their early game much stronger.

_________________
I want the public schools to leave my children alone. No condoms, no heterosexual ed. Under the guise of sex ed, public schools are trying to instill un-Catholic views into our children. The public schools, and the gay lobby, want access to MY CHILDREN.