I'd say that a big OOP is a relative term, they would still do better than the rest.

This round with starting land at 350 acres, races looked balanced compared to normal 300 acres. With land defense at 3 instead of 2, everyone would get 1/3 less land. So instead of the highest land gains being 550 on the two waves, it will be around 365. So the absolute top would be 185 acres smaller while top 50 will be some 90 acres smaller.

With less land and lowered (de-)construction cost it would be a lower build up and sit phase.

I don't think it would mean top players hit each-other earlier or later, I think it will be just the same.

_________________
In his last Budget as chancellor in 2007, Gordon Brown said: “We will never return to the old boom and bust.”

Let's do a 4 week round. 28 days, 672 hours. Not counting the 48 free ticks in protection. Meaning next round is comparable to a 720 hours old round.

_________________
In his last Budget as chancellor in 2007, Gordon Brown said: “We will never return to the old boom and bust.”

For building formula:

raze= MAX(1000, land-500)

My proposal for raze= MAX(500, land-400)


build=500+ 0.5xland

my proposal for build= ax^2+bx+c, where a=1/10000, b=0.3, c=300


lumber stays the same.

_________________
In his last Budget as chancellor in 2007, Gordon Brown said: “We will never return to the old boom and bust.”

Kalle,

I am afraid I am going to have to strongly disagree with your assumptions regarding increasing land DP.



Evidence gathered after the implementation of the 350 land start demonstrates that you do not need to do a big regular OOP to do well. For instance, in this round two DELAYED or LATE OOPs are currently in top 5. Further, in the last round, I believe there were also two delayed or late OOPs who finished in top 5.

I really think you are making a mistake here on the basis of a small sample (your realm)--just like when you boosted Orcs last time on the basis of a small sample (your kingdom).



You may be right (though I don't think so) if land DP were x3, but I can guarantee that at x4, top kingdoms will get totally raped.

Let's think through this. At x4, inactive land DP kingdoms would have 1400 DP at 350 and 1544 DP at 386. Now, the standard DP that top players leave is 2k, and the most aggressive players leave 1600-1800. Are people going to hit inactive land DP kingdoms when they cost just a few hundred DP less than the top kingdoms? There is almost no incentive to hit inactive land DP kingdoms at all at x4.

****

Further, having x3 or x4 land DP will hurt the middle tier and new players even more, because they are the ones who have trouble training efficiently and generating sufficient OP to do well at OOP--as well as trouble finding targets quickly and efficiently.

And most importantly, increasing land DP--and thereby making them cheaper targets--will likely get them hit more often, which will probably discourage them from finding the game appealing from the very start.

_________________
Our pack's Royal Family Message every round now:

"Please don't hit active guys with huge OP--even if they leave land DP!!!"

ehhh... people would train more DP. or get hit. I like nerfing landfarms. landfarms are stupid.

_________________
The empty handed painter on your street..
is drawing crazy patterns in your sheets...
The sky, too, is falling over you...
and it's all over now, Baby Blue.

Landfarms keep the game from stagnating more than it already does. I for one, can say, if the game stagnates more, I really will have little interest in playing. Its already boring for half of the round when all you can do it sit, making the beginning of the round slower will just add more time to that.

How much more DP? 2500?

Ok, let's assume 2500. You would then generate no more than 5.5k OP at max with most medium and slow races (and this would involve very inefficient all-Gold Mines type of build anyways). If we do that, we'd get perilously getting close to the stage where exploring is better than attacking unless you are playing a very fast race.

(That is, even at x3, you won't be able to make more than 5 attacks. And 5 attacks x 31 land gained per hit--assuming hitting 350 at 386--will net you a grand total of 155 land. This can be explored in OOP. And I can't imagine the returns if we went x4. Hey, why OOP at all? Explore for the win!)



Exactly.

_________________
Our pack's Royal Family Message every round now:

"Please don't hit active guys with huge OP--even if they leave land DP!!!"

lol.

The only difference would be earlier player vs player direct aggression.

If we really want there to be 'less stagnation' then make attacking more incentivised at the core of the game mechanics than it is now.

I've always thought it was kind of retarded that farming inactives was the way to succeed at OOP.

_________________
The empty handed painter on your street..
is drawing crazy patterns in your sheets...
The sky, too, is falling over you...
and it's all over now, Baby Blue.

I agree with you on making attacking more incentivised at the core game mechanics, id be in favor of that. I dont know that I think you would have more player v player aggression early, though. People are still going to defend what they need to not get hit, so, most of the players still wont be getting hit. People will just gain less land, be closer together, and not ever be able to have enough OP to hit someone without getting hit back.

sounds a hell of a lot more interesting to me.

_________________
The empty handed painter on your street..
is drawing crazy patterns in your sheets...
The sky, too, is falling over you...
and it's all over now, Baby Blue.

Players will need to grow somehow! Maybe early spec units would be much more useful. As it is right now, one could OOP on full elites and only be 100-150 land behind most other "fast" kingdoms.

_________________
The Age of Despair :: Round 2 :: 1 El Norte
The Age of Wisdom :: Round 4 :: 1 SmoochyWoochyPoochy
The Age of Wisdom :: Round 6 :: 1 Goblin Rings
The Age of Achievements :: Round 1 :: 1 Hufflepuff's Cup

Just please no.

I would like some stability please. There has been so many changes since ive started, I just want some consistency. Its all I ask.

_________________
Nick says:
brb putting pizza in the oven
lol typing it so much fun
like think about it
you're pressing lil buttons
lol

Shane says:
haha

Haha rahl =P

I think orc is overpowered. Looking back at #23 and #44 makes me feel honored I was able to beat them. Whenever one of them shammied up, their power grow above every other kingdom (but me). I specifically remember #44 orc having almost 200 land more than most kingdoms yet still having a smaller economy than most, without gqs! He shammied up and boosted his off mods my like 70% and became almost 60k power stronger than his leshkin realmie. While the leshkin had played a near-perfect round imo, oh, and picked up shade (8% def mods) for cheap.

If I remember right, I had calculated if the orc had shammied up earlier, he could have grown to my size without much effort. It would have been 100% worth the lost economy/inefficiency of the shammies. Maybe I'm wrong and he saw something I didn't, such as a lack of targets. I had actually rushed my push to conquest #13 because I was afraid I wouldn't have time to defend a shammy push if he was able to grow RIGHT after my conquest.

Before he started shammies, the orc was roughly 240k/200k I think. Three days and some 14k shammies later he was 415k/305k. No spec/tavern push can compete with that.

_________________
The Age of Despair :: Round 2 :: 1 El Norte
The Age of Wisdom :: Round 4 :: 1 SmoochyWoochyPoochy
The Age of Wisdom :: Round 6 :: 1 Goblin Rings
The Age of Achievements :: Round 1 :: 1 Hufflepuff's Cup

Of course orc is way strong, and lesh too. He did not put a lot of effort into his orc to get to where he was I think, lots of rl stuff going on that made elvy completely insignificant. I think things would have been different the last few days if they were still around.

Not that I've really read most of what has been said, but I'll just throw my 2 cents in anyways. I think the game needs to get more difficult at the top, while not making it any more complex, in order to make it noob friendly and hopefully keep players around. I don't really have suggestions on how to do that.

It's just far too easy to calc top op. Everyone just defends it, and the only way to catch someone is if they can't be near the computer when the push is made. But it's easy to see what their offense is, what they are capable of pushing and when they will push....

Eliminating the impact of landfarms (increasing land def or whatever) is not such a bad idea maybe. It would make players have to attack players much earlier, but since it is so easy to defend top op, lead to earlier stagnation...maybe players would be more inclined to take risks early on, since it would be much easier to recover from being hit early in the round? Since everyone would likely be smaller than a 'normal' round, the hits would be smaller and easy to recover from?

Is it possible to make top op harder to calculate? Add a degree of uncertainty, but not a random factor? Make it more difficult to get the information? I think someone suggested making the info gathering ops cost far more stealth. If you can't get all the ops on every person in the game, maybe some hig offenses could go undetected? Remove NW altogether...that would make it fun

Have less casualties on offense? Make defense more expensive or harder to train?

Maybe there could be an attack that gains land even if you don't fully break someone. Obviously a smaller percentage of land, and scaled based on how close you were to beating your targets dp...

I dunno if any of that even makes sense. I have a bunch of thoughts, but they don't come out so well I just think the game is too easy already. I'm in favour of making the game more difficult, but not necessarily making it more complex...

Thanks Sizzler for your ideas.

_________________
In his last Budget as chancellor in 2007, Gordon Brown said: “We will never return to the old boom and bust.”