I know it's early, but then Kalle implied in the last round (or the one before that) that it's never too early, so here goes:

General Changes:

Rolling back prior round's changes:

I feel both the bans on Questing and RIMP-ing in OOP do not make much sense.

As for Questing, the only rationale I heard (not by administrators, but by a player--so the information could be a misleading hearsay) was that it would prevent someone from re-starting numerous times to get Quest land. Are you serious? First of all, I do not feel that extra 20 land gives you that much more of an advantage when you start at 350 because of the proportionate cost increases in re-zoning and construction (except for Terranoids and, to a less degree, Dwarves). Second, if someone is willing to spend possibly hours re-starting to get Quest land (keep in mind that you still need to build and cast spells for 7 hours even if not in real-time before you get your 1st Quest), then why not let him? Madness, too, must have its own rewards

Now as for RIMP-ing, I do not think I have even read of a clear-cut rationale, though I am sure it's possible that I've missed a thread or post here and there. But the negatives seem to be overwhelming--including above all restricting game play to where everyone is forced to over-build Gold Mines and go "fast."

Main hero activity:

I think Kalle suggested that we come up with ways to promote greater log-on activity and reward such activity. So why not do it via rewards in the main hero activity? It would least upset the balance and boost an aspect of the game that may be currently under-developed anyways.

To begin with, is it possible to be able to click on an ad and get an extra turn every hour or every other hour instead of twice a day?

Also, I would reduce the number of turns required to quest to 12 turns instead of current 16 turns.

To off-set injuries, we could add a spell to heal heroes and make it relatively expensive--which was suggested in the past by Quaffle and others.

Finally, also as suggested by legions, the item list is pretty inadequate and the items that exist are rather out-of-whack. Would it be possible to at least re-balance some items that do not make too much sense? For instance, I don't know anyone who's ever used the Dark Katana, because the use requirements are so prohibitively high, and the gains minor in consideration of it.

Race substitutions:

Gryphons in and Shinobis out; Frostzorbs in and Flameweavers out:

This is rather straightforward: I propose to replace two slow races that may be easy to play but are seemingly ineffective even at what they are supposed to do well (that is, excel in longer rounds) with two versatile races that are equally easy to learn but more effective and arguably popular.

Race changes:

Terranoid:

They appear to have benefited disproportionately from the new 350 start land scheme, because the extra 50 land did not entail re-zone or construction cost increases. Our Terranoid OOP-ed at slightly over 6k OP, and that is considerably higher than what players used to be able to achieve. So this must be nerfed a bit--most likely via an increase in specialist cost.

Nonetheless, I also feel that the halving of the Slinger DP from 2 to 1 has made them extraordinarily vulnerable to post-OOP suicides or early round hits; and Terranoids need land lead to be effective. So I propose returning the Slinger DP to 2, which would be somewhat off-set by the specialist cost increase.

Elf/Troll:

Like Shinobis, both of these long-round races seem to need a bit more of a boost to be viable in any round other than 6-week rounds.

I cannot speak for Trolls at all, because I have never played, simulated, or watched them within the realm. But perhaps returning them closer to they were prior to they were re-introduced could help?

With Elves, I would suggest either/both increase in Woodland Rangers OP/DP and/or Shadow Elves DP.

Shinobi/Flameweaver (assuming they are not replaced):

Again, I cannot say much for Flameweavers, since I have never played, simulated, or watched them within the realm. But they continue to remain unpopular and ineffective in spite of having been played by several elite players in the past--just like Shinobis.

With Shinobis, I would suggest either a point increase in Sylph DP or Crystal Assassin DP (if the latter, without a substantial cost increase).

All other races appear to me relatively balanced. Well, I'd like Vampires to obtain a bit more efficiency--maybe 6/6 Daywalkers, 8/4 & 4/8 Dhampires, and 8/2 & 10/4 Vampire Lords--but that's driven more by "fluff" or "RPG" concerns and might be too radical.

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Our pack's Royal Family Message every round now:

"Please don't hit active guys with huge OP--even if they leave land DP!!!"

I agree that the ban on questing is excessive and annoying. Much better would be to reduce the possibility to landquest to Zero during protection.

As for Imps the rationale is much more obvious, and the same... Players would be able to HC and Imp, restart, repeat, until their Rimps max out. Which is silly. Having Rimps blocked does not stop anyone from making some DMs in protection, there is still a longer-term benefit to them as there has always been. The ability to have huge OOPs with full goldmines is what drives the decision to make them during protection, as it always has been, just the rewards are greater now with larger OOP landsizes.

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The empty handed painter on your street..
is drawing crazy patterns in your sheets...
The sky, too, is falling over you...
and it's all over now, Baby Blue.

I think both questing and rimps being disabled in protection is a good solution to the potential problems, and not really a big deal in anyway so i dont see the big problem.
As for the rest of changes i will wait untill after the round before making any assessments.

Flameweaver :

Don't fix something that ain't broken.

Vampire :

Same thing

Shinobi :

Maybe increase the offense of the CA a bit (0.5 - 1 point) with corresponding price. Then again, Shinobi might have already won too many rounds.

Elf :

Feels slightly underpowered imo. Then again, boost them and watch 20% of the playerbase play those Treehuggers

Troll :

Always a bitch to nerf for different roundlengths. Depends too much on roundlength to rate them.

Terranoid :

Agreed with the increase of the defense on Rock Slingers. Possibly adjust their price a bit, or maybe increased casualty-rating ?

I did think of that, but it appears to me that this problem has a simple coding solution: Not permitting re-starts to RIMP if they have already RIMP-ed.



I agree that this is extraordinarily early to discuss balance changes, but I am not sure we will have that much better idea when the round is over, given that it is a draft round, and I've already seen some very strange things



Maybe "broken" is not the right word (and I didn't use it), but the Flameweaver performance have been decidedly under-whelming in the 15 or so rounds I have played. I do not recall a Flameweaver ever in serious contention in those rounds, including three that were max-length rounds.

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Our pack's Royal Family Message every round now:

"Please don't hit active guys with huge OP--even if they leave land DP!!!"

Oh god, please don't introduce Gryphon AGAIN. ANYthing but Gryphon.

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I want the public schools to leave my children alone. No condoms, no heterosexual ed. Under the guise of sex ed, public schools are trying to instill un-Catholic views into our children. The public schools, and the gay lobby, want access to MY CHILDREN.

I still think Shinobi and FW haven't been played to their full potential. And not only because maybe they are 'bad/underpowered', but because there were other races around which were better. Therefore FW/Shin look bad, but maybe they aren't bad at all.

Last 2 cases of FW being tried to their full potential is when Sven's pack run 5 of them and when Wilan played them to 4/5th spot. Sven's FWs didn't manage to compete late round. They maybe were underpowered back then. They got lots of boosts since that round. Also, that round was dominated by fast Gryphons, which were very powerfull back then and managed to last till the end cuz of this being very powerfull. I don't want to spice the Gryph discussion or whatsoever, but 1. FW had an hard time back then, 2. FWs still did decently, 3. they are boosted after this. I think I go here with Ping Pong: "let's not fix something that ain't broken".
Next to that, evil has had stronger late round races recently. Ilith was always superior, Orc has been superior lately. Leshkin has been overpowered ever since introduced. Amazon was very popular in (semi)short rounds. Lot's of reasons NOT to chouse FW.
An additional point: the general consesus lately has been that FW is bad, therefore they aren't played. If noone sees a strong FW, no one bothers to check if they are good, when the Globals are full with "FW sucks!"

Same goes for Shin. I don't remember correctly which 'good' player(s) played them lately, but all I want to say is that Good has always had better races. In fast rounds, Dwarf/Terra are favored, with an Ele and Human for the last phase of the round. Sylvan has been there, which has some fast abilities and can last mid/"late-ish"-round. Ele is just really strong at this moment and therefore very popular when Good aligned packs are gonna choose for the race that is gonna excel (mid-to-)late round.
Shin are boosted slightly and not played to their full potential yet IMO. I think we can say the same for shin as FW: the general consesus lately has been that Shin is bad, therefore they aren't played. If noone sees a strong Shin, no one bothers to check if they are good, when the Globals are full with "Shin sucks!"

Boosting those 2 races my cause a large group of people, that actually care to do the math and see the potential on some races, to play the race in an overpowered condition.

Race replacements. I don't really have a preference of which to take out and which to (re)introduce. Spirit look fun, but might need to be balanced. No Gryphs pls.

Orc, but especially Leshkin: my feeling says nerf. But let's wait the round's end.

Terra, Human, Troll, Ele, Vamp, Amazon, Dwarf: no change unless the round is extremely short or extremely long (only for some of those, not all))

Only Elf left: dunno about them. Probably the same argument as for Shin FW: haven't been played to full potential.

Questing and Rimps in Protection: is just fine? Affects everyone in the same way. It's the PLAYER'S choice, not the GAME'S, to run more fast races cuz of the no Rimps early. In this mid-length round, we are gonna see some rising kingdoms that have played the longterm IMPS strat. So I don't think this is a full fast races domination because of these changes.

New OOP system: has maybe boosted Terra and Dwarf. Too early to say after 1 round.
Terra in theory can be overpowered. But the player can screw up alot Compare this round's top Terra('s) with last round's Terra. They are overpowered after the new OOP change, but where are they now? Same for Dorf. Player can screw up alot.
They are damn hard races to play and they are only viable in short to midlength rounds. I don't see serious problems.

I don't like shinobi, please remove them for... spirit. That sounds good. No gryphon please, they are overpowered.

I don't like flameweaver... they could use a slight boost, but overall they are nothing but bottomfeeders. Very boring race. Replace them with zorb please!

Yeah, give terranoids rock slingers 2 dp and they will be overpowered. I say make rocks 4/0 and traps 0/5.5. Solid buff if anything.

Dwarf versus amazon is a fun match up. They both seem balanced.

Elf sucks, but again, I don't like races DESIGNED to bottomfeed. They are balanced imo though.

Human should go back to 6.7 defenders. They seem a tad strong imo.

Boost leshkin burgundy, nerf amaranthine. Its basically a roundly practice by now. =)

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The Age of Despair :: Round 2 :: 1 El Norte
The Age of Wisdom :: Round 4 :: 1 SmoochyWoochyPoochy
The Age of Wisdom :: Round 6 :: 1 Goblin Rings
The Age of Achievements :: Round 1 :: 1 Hufflepuff's Cup

Oh no, you said it. The author of this topic won't like this I wanted to avoid this discussion

Spirit + FrostZorb in would be very nice! For Shin and FW, it's okay too. Taking away Shin, good only has Elf for the long shot. But who cares? Spirit will run away every round.

Leave Terra as it is. Last round it won and people were all over the place to say they need a nerf. This round they are nowhere and all of a sudden they need a boost, having WON a long round before this round. Just leave them. They are hard, but not unplayable.



Yeah, too bad. Could've be fixed in one time.

Just two thing i want to say in here. First, can we think about the changes for once, and actually make a good decision. And 2nd, were you guys not playing last round? Lets buff terra more....lol. If you have issues with dp post oop, change your mil, not the race that was just used to dominate all of you.

I think that most of the races are well-balanced and only a few of them needs some change. But I dont wanna discuss it before the end of the round.

If we wanna replace some races for the next round, we should decide what will be the round length first. It is much easier to decide what races should go and what should stay then.

I wouldnt change rimps and quest system during oop. It is same for everyone. Maybe we can only give more bonus turns for people that are very active or so.

How about giving a chance for new races.

You and your replacements. How about REPLACE AMAZON, TERRANOID. That would be fun ey?

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There's only one thing real about this world and that's us! The players!
Getting stronger and defeating others!
That's the way this game is played!

I think that we should replace popular races, because that is the way how to force players to pick not so popular races. If we get rid of unpopular race, then there is high chance that not many players will play the new race, because all popular races will stay in the game.

It seems logical to me, however I am not sure that it will work.

I prefer not to force people into decision about race picking. I prefer keeping what is popular over what is unpopular.

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In his last Budget as chancellor in 2007, Gordon Brown said: “We will never return to the old boom and bust.”

Hehe, I expected that my opinion will not be accepted.