So are dragons like birds? eating 10 times their own weight XD

They are predators so they should go hunting for prey themselves.

Change Farms to hunting Ground or some other name indicating they hunt for prey.

Deivis their OP and DP is closer to an elemental than a troll when you factor in upkeep.

I like the suggestion about renaming Farms into Hunting Grounds. That way it can be justifiable that "food" is more something relative to the race.

Increasing the food-upkeep would too drastically change the amount of farms needed. For example, 1 food per population per hour would require 20% farms (if you don't even have houses and housing imps) or even 30+% farms when you have some homes and good housing imps. This race is more aimed for the gold/diamond economy balance.

I'm still busy calculating the unit-costs, but this is a bit what I have in mind :
- specs about the same cost per point as human specs. Prize mostly (or even entirely) in gold
- Fafnirs about 5% more expensive than Longbowmen per point defense. Price more than half in gold, but with decent share of diamonds in it.
- Hydras about 10% more expensive than Longbowmen per point defense. Price about half in diamonds and half in gold
- Black Dragon about 10% more expensive than Knights per point offensive. Prize mostly (or even totally) in diamonds.

Still figuring out what kind of imps are good to calculate with late round. That's why the progress with the unit prizes will still take some time. To be continued....

I added prices which provided quite a problem, because of the worth of diamonds.
If you look well and use the conversionrate of 60g=10d (at OOP), then the elite units are actually quite cheap (around 170g per point off/def).

Later when imps are getting high (+30% pop, +40% banking), an human home filled with workers provides about 127 gold effectively per hour, while a Dragon Lair filled with workers provides about 12,1 diamond/h effectively. So in that case 10d=100g.

That makes the Dragons in the beginning cheap to train Elites, while later the elites are relatively gaining in price compared to other races.

The counterpart of the Dwarves is born

Not really the dwarves elite is much more expensive per point. You have to either make the attacking elite or the defensive elite more expensive.

Keep in mind that late-round, imps tend to be quite high. With 40% banking and 30% housing, 10diamonds is worth about 100 gold. So the Black Dragon costs at that point about 240 gold per point. Compare that with a Human Knight, which costs about 210 gold per point at that moment.

Or the Hydra with 210 gold per point vs the Human Longbowman with 188 gold per point.

So I'm a bit reluctant to increase the price of the elites

Unit composition is a lot like troll now =/ with the hybrid unit and efficient defender and uber efficient attacker. I liked the old unit composition more.

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They will dominate the early and midround easy if you do nothing. Being a competitor to dwarves you should make the defense a little more expensive.

And population bonus also affect the Dragons DM production. So it is mainly the GC bonus that is the issue for efficiency later.

Dwarves can invest more per building than Dragons can with their workers btw.

also if you DO want to compare humans with dragon.. that knight is 7 points per unit that dragon is around 10 points per unit. Those extra nearly 50% offense bonus makes the 210 gold per point way to cheap. Should be around 235 gold per point or even 240 and that is still cheap as you require less units per dragon military in the form of upkeep the greater your population bonus gets. 30% pop bonus makes it around 12,2 points per unit for offense.

Do not forget to factor in the upkeep! You do not have that in elveron like we do in utopia.

You have to look at how much population you require for that upkeep with the military unit. Then you have how much population is spend on that one military unit.

Basicly 50 offense on one unit with 2 daimonds upkeep.

2 daimonds upkeep is handled with 4 workers each hour.

so that is 50 offense on 5 population... = 10 offense per unit.

I think you misunderstood my post. It's the Black Dragon that costs around 240 gold per point offense. It's the human Knight that is 210 gold per point offense.

About the 10 point offense vs the 7 point offense in terms of space-efficiency :
Ofcourse 10 point offense is more space-efficient than a 7 point offense unit. But at a price difference of 30 gold per point, it will mean that Dragons won't be able to train the same amount of units for the same income. They will eventually earn it back due to their space-efficiency. But let us take a look at how long that takes.

70 points offense from 7-point attackers at 210 g/off costs 14.7k gold and takes 10 spots.
70 point offense from 10-point attackers at 240 g/off costs 16.8k gold and takes 7 spots.
So the difference is 2.1k gold for 3 spots that might be used for workers.
So 1 worker will need to earn back 700 gold.
if you take 0.5 diamonds = 5 gold (which is the case at 30% housing and 40% banking), it will take 140 hours before the price-difference is earned back.

As a rule of thumb for a 5-week-round, is that it should not take more than 5-6 days for an unit to earn itself back. If it doesn't do that, the player won't be able to keep up with the rest of the players. So that bad ain't the 240g per point offense for the Black Dragon.

The defensive elite of the Dragons is less space-efficient than the defensive elite of the Humans, but costs more per point of defense (at 30% housing and 40% banking). So even if the offensive elite might have been too cheap, I'd say the Dragons are penalized enough through their defensive elite.


Also it's not my aim to make the Dragons totally the counterpart of Dwarves ; it's just an observation from me as creator about the race. With balancing, I try to balance them with Humans, as they are considered the default race.



I'm currently thinking about raising the price of Hydras a little bit, but decreasing the price of the specs, to give people more the incentive to train them at OOP instead of elites. from the start.

Also thinking about changing the spell to something that just trades a certain percentage of diamonds for gold. That way the spell won't be that fatal in regards of upkeeps that suddenly might not be paid anymore.

Actually I confused the hydra longbowmen thing. I was focusing on the 10op attacker as he is much more efficient.



Well I am more with the 7 days limit for 5 weeks. That is a matter of opinion or maybe some serious play testing experience would prove it more accurately.



Apparently it is not considered like that anymore. It was the default race under Virus though.



Thumbs up!

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PIKACHU FTW!!!

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Changed the prices and racial spell

Hmm, seems like the spy/mage unit is pretty cheap. Maybe increase the cost a bit? With the .5 value, ~1000g would be about right. But since its a double unit, with BOTH mage and spy, maybe increase the price 150-250 gold.

Oh, and since you said you wanted your race to be more of the original dragon, increase the worker cost? Purely for racial value though since most other races are at about 100g for workers.

If they go good also, I think "White Dragon" would be cooler than Gold.

Also, the conversion rate for Diamond to Gold is 6:1. So your spell is exactly right. If possible, increase the conversion of gold to 6.2-6.4 so its more beneficial for the race.

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Nick says:
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like think about it
you're pressing lil buttons
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Shane says:
haha

Don't be *too* nitpicky about the prices, they will get rebalanced anyway, if the race gets into the game.

In a nutshell: I like the race, and especially the racial spell. Only small grudge is that you're not leaving them any room to play anything but a cookie-cutter strat with pretty much full dms. Many races are like that though.

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1 spy or 1 mage should be ~1k gold (mages generally run a little more expensive). therefor, a .5/.5 spy/mage unit should be ~1k gold (generally slightly higher).